tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post7112003246834765620..comments2023-09-29T06:00:09.242-05:00Comments on Julie Pippert: Using My Words: Restaurant Trauma in Texas: How eating out prompted a really uncomfortable lesson about cultureJulie Pipperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-42113999744912636432014-01-22T23:27:33.736-06:002014-01-22T23:27:33.736-06:00Great post! I feel exactly the same way about Twin...Great post! I feel exactly the same way about Twin Peaks. Unfortunately, that place is about to cause a divorce in my family. My husband spends more time there than at home with his family. It's an evil place filled with satan. And I don't really feel sorry for the women because THEY chose that job. It's just so disappointing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-20124919388619764032011-04-12T14:26:34.571-05:002011-04-12T14:26:34.571-05:00Thank you for your post. My husband frequents this...Thank you for your post. My husband frequents this restaurant, against my loud and frequent protests. The waitresses are encouraged to sit down and visit and flirt with the customers. In some cases, exchanging phone numbers, emails, etc. I agree with everything you have said and yet I don't know what to do with a spouse who wants to go there and yet I think it is very disrepectful to women and to me as well that he goes there. You are lucky that your husband felt uncomfortable. Three years ago, we were in the same situation and walked out. This year, however he has turned over a new leaf and is going through mid-life crisis and it is now his favorite restaurant.Evenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-32633159680551313122010-10-20T21:22:19.872-05:002010-10-20T21:22:19.872-05:00There is one of these in Albuquerque and us, like ...There is one of these in Albuquerque and us, like you, didn't know it was that kind of establishment. We were with our good friends. We walked in and walked out and it was actually our husband's who didn't really want to go in. And honestly, I know men are men and they had we not been there they may have stayed...but in talking as we left they genuinely embarrassed that the girls were dressed like that (we all were!) and really didn't want to go in. I can say that my husband does have a respect for women and I was really proud of him for walking out and making that choice. <br /><br />Besides, like you said, the whole place was filled with disgusting men drooling over the girls and it just makes it disgusting and who wants to eat in a place like that.Angelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972509100349060085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-53760875966215200482010-10-16T09:29:24.394-05:002010-10-16T09:29:24.394-05:00Not only are you thoughtful and eloquent in this p...Not only are you thoughtful and eloquent in this post about your discomfort (and why we all would -- or should be -- similarly uncomfortable there), but you are gracious in your comments even in response to people who seem intentionally to be obtuse. I admire you so much on so many levels.<br /><br />And I sincerely hope you do take Mr Lady up on that offer. I know she means it.MommyTimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12860003098383600806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-76776566446022129682010-10-16T07:14:08.240-05:002010-10-16T07:14:08.240-05:00Julie, what a thoughtful and compassionate respons...Julie, what a thoughtful and compassionate response to a sad situation. <br /><br />I don't comment here often enough, mostly because of my issues with Blogger (or should I say my firewall's issues with blogger), but I read, a lot. <br /><br />I love that you expressed your outrage at the environment while being so aware of the young women who, out of economic necessity (or their own personal reasons), are forced to dress in a demeaning, overly sexualized manner. I love that you and your husband talked to your girls about it in a very sensible way. <br /><br />You are a delight. Thank you.Cocohttp://mommyhoodandlife.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-17515396545496015412010-10-15T14:39:44.620-05:002010-10-15T14:39:44.620-05:00GLEN spaketh thusly:
Who doesn't get told wha...GLEN spaketh thusly:<br /><br /><i>Who doesn't get told what to wear and how to act at work?</i><br /><br />We all do. However, my employer has NEVER told me to pose in a suggestive manner with an underage minor. A risky thing, that: should community mores shift slightly, or a DA need a public case to help ensure his/her re-election, the adult(s) involved could find themselves in a heap o' trouble. I can certainly understand why the young woman was "reluctant".<br /><br />And BTW, I would much rather be "Mr. Weepy Man" than "Mr. CREEPY Man". Just saying.<br /><br />~EdT.Ed T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05901818490442310728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-45982522018218647332010-10-14T09:06:07.196-05:002010-10-14T09:06:07.196-05:00Gah. You know, back in my younger, more naive days...Gah. You know, back in my younger, more naive days, I was such a pro-sex feminist. And to be so I had to convince myself the world is basically a good place, people basically are kind, and at heart want to treat each other well and look out for each other.<br /><br />And there are some good decent people out there. And I've got two little boys I'm trying to raise to be good, decent men, and not just balding adolescents. I've banned them from watching football in my house. I'm certain I'm trying to hold back the tide here. I'm certain they'll be exposed to countless images of female-as-less-than-equally-human before they hit puberty. But my sons will know, should they make the choice to treat any woman with less than absolute respect, their mother will be ashamed of them.jenniferhttp://halfmileupriver.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-39104873545676771382010-10-13T23:49:16.343-05:002010-10-13T23:49:16.343-05:00The irony is overwhelming. She's going to be u...The irony is overwhelming. She's going to be upset that her photo was put on display? If anyone who agrees with this post (raises hand) is simply a prude, and "Katherine" is perfectly happy with her choice of "profession" (the oldest one), if she is "empowered" and willing, then she will have no objection whatsoever to being "displayed." After all, that is what she does. Display herself.<br /><br />But if WE are right, then she might be embarrassed. Which is highly ironic.<br /><br />FTR, I went to the website and send a nice, friendly outline of my opinion of the objectification of women and how it contributes to sexual harassment and violence against women. When women are viewed by society as nothing more than objects for sex to be used and discarded, women become nothing more than chattel. I would never allow my minor daughter to work in such a place. And I hope I raise her to have more self-respect and self-confidence to choose to do so when she is an adult.Robynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-75968271887498065202010-10-13T17:19:33.376-05:002010-10-13T17:19:33.376-05:00Glen, if some man walked into my office where I wo...Glen, if some man walked into my office where I worked and told me to "pose sexy" with some minor boys for a photo session, he'd be in trouble. If I did it, I'd be in trouble. Under some circumstances, that trouble would probably be legal. That's the SITUATION.<br /><br />But a man has never done to me that because it's generally understood that at work (barring some notable exceptions) we act professionally and treat one another as people, with respect.<br /><br />These young women are at work, professionals doing a challenging job.<br /><br />The point is how our society treats young women and the trouble this sort of situation can cause if someone, unlike the cool guys Stephen and Ed above, doesn't know how to behave.<br /><br />Clearly, you see something else here. That's exactly why places like this, Hooter spinoffs, thrive.<br /><br />No matter how freely a woman does it... And again NOT ABOUT THE CLOTHES, it's about WHY the restaurant wants these women dressed this way...it makes the woman an object. No matter how much fun she thinks it is, how stupid she thinks the patrons are, how above it she thinks she is, how nice some of the guys are, how many women eat there too, how proud she is of her body...<br /><br />It's making a woman an object.<br /><br />That's not good.<br /><br />It's not cool to mock how I felt as a parent, but honestly, that's just another thing it's clear eludes you. I love my kids and other parents got that's what that hyperbole was about: that intense feeling you get when you feel so proud of your kids for being so amazing while being appalled by the circumstances in which they showed such grace and awesomeness.<br /><br />(Also, nobody pays me anything to write this blog, but thanks anyway for the compliment.)Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-4591394476776104092010-10-13T17:02:37.451-05:002010-10-13T17:02:37.451-05:00As to the cloak, I am not a paid professional blog...As to the cloak, I am not a paid professional blogger like you and I don't need 50 prudish women (minus you of course, you only died 500 times every time you saw something there) and 1 crying man to berate my email with your opinions. I suppose you are right, I don't get the point. So it is about having the appearance of a "family" pub? Then when you discover it, walk out. The women won't be embarrassed, it happens. What SITUATION? Who doesn't get told what to wear and how to act at work?Glenhttp://www.twinpeaksrestaurant.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-40859414593212198902010-10-13T16:43:28.090-05:002010-10-13T16:43:28.090-05:00Glen, like Jeff, you've missed the point. Also...Glen, like Jeff, you've missed the point. Also you've completely misunderstood Erin's comment. <br /><br />This isn't about being prudish. I have talked about the *circumstances* I found at the restaurant. It's too bad that's eluded your comprehension. I have not addressed skimpy dress in general. I've never blogged about bikinis at the beach or tank tops at the track because *that's totally different circumstances* with completely different results. <br /><br />To endeavor to be crystal clear: It's NOT ABOUT THE CLOTHES -- IT'S NOT ABOUT SEEING SKIN OR CLEAVAGE. It's about THE SITUATION and what comes from it and the clothes are, yes, a part of it, but it's not the briefness of the outfit it's the CIRCUMSTANCE.<br /><br />Also, I'd welcome your friend Katherine to come and share her experience and perspective. I'm sure she'd be confident enough to come comment with a verified identity instead of a cloaked one, too.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-75906752531709972552010-10-13T16:29:38.386-05:002010-10-13T16:29:38.386-05:00I agree with Jeff, Bill, & Erin, very prudish ...I agree with Jeff, Bill, & Erin, very prudish of all of you, don't take your kids to the beach or a Texans game you might see worse! That happens to be my friend Katherine you've shown a picture of, I'm sure she will quite (not) enjoy you using her picture for your blog and your categorization of her and her friends as exploited young girls.Glennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-9273982591004895472010-10-13T13:44:44.867-05:002010-10-13T13:44:44.867-05:00OMG. If you died 546 times, mine was the 547th dea...OMG. If you died 546 times, mine was the 547th death. Bless you for giving your waitperson a huge tip, and bless your husband for preventing you from committing a homicide and for deciding that his daughters will NEVER EVER work in an establishment like that.Cynematichttp://cynematic.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-87812073961698738942010-10-13T13:30:14.449-05:002010-10-13T13:30:14.449-05:00Erin, I hear you. That's the same theoretical ...Erin, I hear you. That's the same theoretical place I was at before actually being in the place. <br /><br />Now, having been at the place...it's not theoretical, it's very real. And in that place on that day in that situation, there was nothing awesome about it, except for the degree of awful it was.<br /><br />Should men and women alike be empowered with healthy sexuality? Sure. Absolutely.<br /><br />I've never written a post about bathing suits. Bikinis. Workout clothes. Tank tops. Skimpy clothing of any type.<br /><br />Why? Probably because anytime I've seen it it's just been personal fashion choice.<br /><br />It's not in this restaurant. <br /><br />Why was this Twin Peaks place so bad? I'm going to C&P a conversation from FB between me and a great guy wherein we both changed our minds about why this is so wrong:<br /><br />Stephen E Southwell I'm okay with friendly flirting between waitresses and customers, but I guess the thing is that it needs to not be from a position of disrespect or forced objectification. Telling the waitresses where and how to stand, and tolerating overt ogling or worse just goes over the top.<br /><br />Julie Pippert I think I agree...but...What's friendly flirting? I guess flirting has an implication to me. If you mean: friendly byplay where there is friendly chatting, sure, that's called being friendly and working on a tip. I'm not okay with flirting, like people do when they are attracted and want a sexual encounter. <br /><br />The problem with the waitress and customer scenario is the customer has the power. The waitress MUST be friendly to you, MUST keep you happy...that's her job. <br /><br />We have no idea if she really wants this intimacy with a customer, and so it just shouldn't come up. Ever. That's because customers come and go in large numbers and if they all want to flirt and feel special...well, they need to check their personal life, not expect that fulfillment from a waitress. <br /><br />Most times it's "customer is always right" and the power is in their hands, as is the tip, which servers really count on. <br /><br />In a place like a breastaurant (hate that term) the scales are even more unbalanced because upon walking in, the men's expectations are set, about how the waitresses are to serve (not that far from service) them. Imagine spending your entire work shift with men thinking they are so funny and clever and special and you just want their "attention." So in essence, I agree with you and your point, but with a caveat. I'm afraid in a place like that "flirting" as I mean it is expected and is very wrong.<br /><br />Stephen E Southwell And because of the points you raise in your post, I don't think I'll be going to any more of these.<br /><br />Julie Pippert Stephen sending you a BIG virtual THANK YOU handshake and hug because you have restored my faith in mankind (though my husband did a lot of that last night too).<br /><br />Stephen E Southwell My flirting definition doesn't approach propositioning, but then again, I know how to behave. Come to think of it, it's really hard to define "flirting". I guess it's one of those things that you know when you see. But again, looking at reality, lets say a waitress had 20 tables on her shift, and all of them were well behaved but one or two, those would be enough to really screw up their day. I'd hate to think about someone having to work at one of these places, hating it, and having to stay out of desperation.<br /><br />/C&P<br /><br />I think Stephen brought up maybe one of the most CRUCIAL points and eloquently discussed it. it firmed up for me -- as did the countless women who weighed in with stories about how as waitresses, customer service reps, secretaries, etc. simply by being kind and friendly to a man, he inferred that they were "interested" and "wanted something from him." And that's not dressed this way.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-16762987141852784532010-10-13T13:28:23.146-05:002010-10-13T13:28:23.146-05:00You are right. Women shouldn't be displayed li...You are right. Women shouldn't be displayed like that. Ever.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16666910475457302786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-20463107991586157352010-10-13T13:20:10.638-05:002010-10-13T13:20:10.638-05:00Ok Bill, that's a fair question.
First, let m...Ok Bill, that's a fair question.<br /><br />First, let me say I disagree with your premise: at no point do I hold anyone, including myself, up as a paragon of virtue. I hold myself up as a human being who found herself in a difficult situation, did her best, and was distressed by what she saw and experienced...thus wrote about it.<br /><br />I think being troubled by sexual objectification of women and being distressed when men treat those women really poorly is simply being a human being.<br /><br />So your question: why did we stay and give such a place our money?<br /><br />I discuss this multiple times within the post itself, but I'll try to explain differently since somehow you weren't able to find the answer within my explanations above.<br /><br />This scenario was an Inkblot Situation -- the kind of thing where many people see many different things. And not any of us are per se wrong or right.<br /><br />As I said, there were a lot of possible "right things to do" and I spent a lot of time "Monday morning quarterbacking" through them.<br /><br />In the moment, you get a split second to choose and when I evaluated it, I decided that although walking out was an option, it would shame these young women and for us, that was wrong. For us, my husband and I handled it correctly: we taught our kids to treat people with dignity and respect regardless of garb, and we let them lead the discussion about what happened.<br /><br />I believe when we think and care, we do our best, and that's as right as it can be. <br /><br />We will never go back and I hope to spare other families this innocent mistake.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-15738515496538154952010-10-13T13:12:26.895-05:002010-10-13T13:12:26.895-05:00Sigh. This is hard for me. For several reasons. I&...Sigh. This is hard for me. For several reasons. I'm a woman, the mother of a daughter. The mother of a son I wish to raise to be a respectful man. I've also eaten at Hooters and been to strip clubs. <br /><br />There is a line, a fine one, between personal choice and exploitation. <br /><br />There is a line between teaching your kids sexuality is healthy and sexism. <br /><br />I toe this line a lot. Empowered by using my sexuality to turn a man or woman into putty in my hands and knowing it's not as important as my smarts. <br /><br />While your family was put in an uncomfortable situation and you handled it well, you also discount those of us who would put our boobs on display willingly and for fun and pleasure. <br /><br />Do I want these young girls objectifying themselves for a buck? No. Certainly not. Or these skeevy men who bring in their teenage sons... bleh. But I don't want to discount or disrespect women who really do enjoy and find empowerment in this sort of atmosphere. <br /><br />Now, as for the messages it sends my kids. Tough. Very tough. We want the best for our kids. And it's hard to accept if what they want is to be oogled. <br /><br />Admittedly we all like to be oogled but perhaps not at this level. Perhaps one of those waitresses was working on her Phd and knew exactly what suckers these men were. Perhaps one never had supportive parents, was less than bright, and got the attention she craved by short shorts and wings. Who knows. <br /><br />What is great is we can talk about this with our daughters. Our sons. Our husbands and dig deeper. Not feel shame over our bodies, or our desires. And finding healthy ways to act them out. Is Twin Peeks or Hooters a healthy way of doing that? I'm not sure. But at the very least it's being discussed.Erin .http://queenofspainblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-18661679722933441912010-10-13T13:04:12.560-05:002010-10-13T13:04:12.560-05:00OK, I will reserve my particular brand of wit for ...OK, I will reserve my particular brand of wit for other sites. But I have to ask, if you and your husband are such paragons of virtue, why didn't you walk out rather than contributing to the profitibilty of such an establishment. I googled it and there are no less than 4 other restuarants in that parking lot.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-60664501664761224232010-10-13T12:56:03.913-05:002010-10-13T12:56:03.913-05:00Magpie, Mary, Alejna and Nicole, thanks!
Alejna, ...Magpie, Mary, Alejna and Nicole, thanks!<br /><br />Alejna, no idea what happened to your other comment! Glad you reposted. yes, it was a little comic relief in the situation, too.<br /><br />Nicole, I hope so too but sometimes it's these little endorsements and rationalizations (it's okay, we're just here for the food, the girls are here by choice) that shape us more than we intend or realize. I'm so appreciative you don't take your boys and teach them that message.<br /><br />Painted Maypole, thanks!<br /><br />Emily wow, I'll take that compliment humbly -- thanks!<br /><br />Ed, once again, so very glad to know you! thanks for your story! And thanks for being a Good Guy.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-78286198180183503372010-10-13T12:52:27.503-05:002010-10-13T12:52:27.503-05:00Elizabeth, that's the sort of model that's...Elizabeth, that's the sort of model that's so needed! Kudos to your husband!<br /><br />Caroline, I don't know what I hoped for in the beginning, but now I hope that too!<br /><br />Christine, moms like you make me take heart!Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-17197161248544283792010-10-13T12:50:36.898-05:002010-10-13T12:50:36.898-05:00Hey Men...and Whoever...respect. Post a constructi...Hey Men...and Whoever...respect. Post a constructive comment or stick back over at Digg. if you want to discuss a point, I'm glad to do it if you comment intelligently. Snarky insults aren't clever, nor do I tolerate them. It's clear my post hit a population that's got itself all riled up and determined to come and fling insults. That's how blogging works. But, this is my yard. I'll enforce private property.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-58124827289457780712010-10-13T12:47:13.026-05:002010-10-13T12:47:13.026-05:00Hey, that sounds just like Saudi Arabia! Burqas fo...Hey, that sounds just like Saudi Arabia! Burqas for everyone!Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-76783180501200071442010-10-13T12:44:34.053-05:002010-10-13T12:44:34.053-05:00Jeff, you utterly missed the point, which I don...Jeff, you utterly missed the point, which I don't find surprising at all. But kudos to you for at least putting a name to your comment -- even if it's not a link. I find your high level of defensiveness intriguing. Says a lot about you.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-42774055669584876242010-10-13T12:40:47.382-05:002010-10-13T12:40:47.382-05:00My Lord I didn't know there were so many hopel...My Lord I didn't know there were so many hopeless prudes in the world. There are dozens of these types of restaurants and the girls make great money most of which goes to their tuition. Do you want to ban NFL cheerleaders too for wearing similar outfits or the Mavs dancers? Just put your kids in a religious compound and don't let them see anybody or watch tv, that'll solve all the problems of the world like Twin Peaks.Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-54763476945859960472010-10-13T12:07:34.264-05:002010-10-13T12:07:34.264-05:00I, for one, would like to endlessly thank you for ...I, for one, would like to endlessly thank you for letting us all know about Twin Peaks. I am a daddy to 5 kids ages 6,5,4,2 and 1. 3 of them are girls. I have seen Twin Peaks and often wondered if it was a good place to eat, but I NEVER knew it was a place like THAT. <br /><br />Thank you so much for giving us all a heads up. My heart truly hurts for those young ladies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com