tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post3218044308966962300..comments2023-09-29T06:00:09.242-05:00Comments on Julie Pippert: Using My Words: Is there gender bias on the playground and political field alike?Julie Pipperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-71593420040430720052008-02-28T00:27:00.000-06:002008-02-28T00:27:00.000-06:00Wow! Really interesting post, Julie.I have 2 boys...Wow! Really interesting post, Julie.<BR/><BR/>I have 2 boys. They can both be aggressive little brutes at times. Hollis tends to be less so in unfamiliar situations. But if some kid cuts in front of him in line, he speaks up or asks for help.<BR/><BR/>Funnily enough, I was a pretty timid kid until about 12 or 13. I still take turns and wait patiently in line. But I think many people I know would describe me as aggressive. Perhaps men I work with would describe me as "pushy" or "bitchy" even. (I take it as a compliment, even if it's not meant that way.) Even my personality type on the Myers-Briggs is one that is typically associated with men. My mother is the same way.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if I would notice a difference in a girl. I agree that it absolutely does happen, whether unconsciously or not and I wonder if it's something we can consciously retrain ourselves to undo.Lawyer Mamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06819273107327846943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-56512481932656791172008-02-26T12:31:00.000-06:002008-02-26T12:31:00.000-06:00what jen said. she's a genius.what jen said. she's a genius.Livhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154719979114564561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-41990326530097478302008-02-26T12:16:00.000-06:002008-02-26T12:16:00.000-06:00I found this today on one of my other daily blog r...I found this today on one of my other daily blog reads and thought that it fit in well both with this post and with the hmm topic, so:<BR/><BR/>http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/the-strong-woman-emasculated-man/<BR/><BR/>Enjoy!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-45504692836312889942008-02-25T22:52:00.000-06:002008-02-25T22:52:00.000-06:00jules, you wrote: I wonder if it can be okay somet...jules, you wrote: I wonder if it can be okay sometimes to tell our girls, sure, that's yours, you play with it as long as you like. <BR/><BR/>and i say, hell yes. i do this already with M sometimes. and in terms of the bigger picture, yes and yes again.Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-88547917518230768082008-02-25T22:49:00.000-06:002008-02-25T22:49:00.000-06:00Ok, here's the thing. There is gender bias because...Ok, here's the thing. There is gender bias because there are different genders. We can only think like what we are.<BR/><BR/>So I say encourage what is naturally inherent in your child. Screw societal expectations and watch your kid be comfy in their own skin.flutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11828689769747130419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-61623407778148177812008-02-25T21:01:00.000-06:002008-02-25T21:01:00.000-06:00Very thought-provoking, Julie.My boys are certainl...Very thought-provoking, Julie.<BR/><BR/>My boys are certainly low in aggressiveness. And at least one of them is also low in assertiveness.<BR/><BR/>I hope I haven't been so bound and determined to raise them in a nonsexist fashion that I've gone too far, LOL!Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05602868040771218507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-21150976455205341722008-02-25T20:55:00.000-06:002008-02-25T20:55:00.000-06:00I think it would be impossible for us to raise chi...I think it would be impossible for us to raise children without enforcing gender roles, at least to some extent. They are such a part of us. Hopefully, we are stretching those boundaries with each new generation.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04725549451973770515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-21930287336991595952008-02-25T20:38:00.000-06:002008-02-25T20:38:00.000-06:00I think there is a lot at play here. All children...I think there is a lot at play here. All children are unique little beasties, but as much as we may try to make all children treated equally, we unconsciously applaud that which will enable them to get through life the best way possible.<BR/><BR/>Part of that will be about you as parents. If you have an assertive (ahem) father, chances are he will want junior to emulate him. If you have a sensitive father, this will be highlighted in his son.<BR/><BR/>If you have a mother who has fought the good fight, rest assured she will be in her daughter's corner pushing for her rights. A mother who has found passive and pretty works for her will give those qualities more polish in her girl.<BR/><BR/>However - we have a wider community at play out there, and there is quite a bit of its expectations and experience that are infused into the child too.<BR/><BR/>Once children start to encounter each other in playground, school or other social settings, the sifting begins and those who have been prepared to be typical of the society will fit more smoothly into these situations.<BR/><BR/>And yes, it does carry into adulthood, and yes it should not be as impactive - but yes, we do end up trying our best to "work from within the system" rather than buck the whole thing when we get big enough.<BR/><BR/>What that has to do with Hilary I don't really know as I try to avoid American politics - if they don't play smarter I am sure another Republican will win - however, over here the deputy Prime Minister gets flack all the time. Because she is a redhead, a fighter, single and a woman. <BR/><BR/>On the upside, a men's magazine recently voted her second sexiest Aussie woman (after Jennifer Hawkins, ex Ms Planet), so she must be doing something right. (Please note, tongue is firmly in cheek at that comment).jeaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17322709527738134797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-88886339132178113702008-02-25T20:32:00.000-06:002008-02-25T20:32:00.000-06:00My oldest daughter is not assertive nor aggressive...My oldest daughter is not assertive nor aggressive and my youngest daughter is very much like I was as a child--she wants very much to be the one in charge and will tell everyone exactly how she feels. The thing is, neither one is going to have an all together easier time based on her personality; they're both going to struggle, just in different ways.<BR/><BR/>I agree with Andrea that we unconsciously support gender differences. And even if you don't do it at home, there's a whole world right outside the door that's going to do that for you.Gwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12526629366170486737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-66416412771760556792008-02-25T19:57:00.000-06:002008-02-25T19:57:00.000-06:00Oh, this is a most excellent post, really it is. ...Oh, this is a most excellent post, really it is. I thought about this issue when I watched the debates, and when I observed my daughter playing the other day. T. is very assertive and I find myself often thinking how lucky that she turned out that way--to have an independent, spirited streak that I hope will take her far. But then I do worry--what if it turns people off? What if she's too spirited, too independent?Aliki2006https://www.blogger.com/profile/15763865834765963343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-2360344881201506952008-02-25T19:04:00.000-06:002008-02-25T19:04:00.000-06:00Just to throw a wrench in the works, in our house,...Just to throw a wrench in the works, in our house, KayTar is the assertive child and BubTar is the sensitive, go with the flow child.<BR/><BR/>But yes, I think that subconsciously we do respond differently based on gender stereotypes. <BR/><BR/>As far as Clinton, remember when her eyes welled up with tears in ONE interview and the headlines were like "Hillary LOSES it!" and such? That was a clearly tied to her being female.Kylahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03311014761113076785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-47026486316304398602008-02-25T17:39:00.000-06:002008-02-25T17:39:00.000-06:00I struggle with this with my own children, a boy a...I struggle with this with my own children, a boy and a girl. But I think I get off easy because of their particular personalities. My son is the older of the two, and is generally kinder and more generous. My daughter, without hesitation, asks for what she wants and goes after it, too. She's just 6, and it will be interesting to watch her, with the hope that this instinct in her doesn't go away (or isn't squashed by others) over time. And I'd like to see my son get a little more of what she's got. Just as I'd like to see her soften a little bit, like he is. Who knows how it will all turn out? <BR/><BR/>I do think Clinton is held to a different standard. Whether we can avoid that 100%, it's hard to say. I hope so.Jennifer Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16239563357592230711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-23245891009883717022008-02-25T16:59:00.000-06:002008-02-25T16:59:00.000-06:00There are absolutely, totally 100% differences bet...There are absolutely, totally 100% differences between boys and girls. When my boys turned two it was like a switch went off: cars, trucks, sirens... and I was determined to keep their toys gender neutral. Didn't help.<BR/><BR/>Also I just finished a book called "Raising Boys" and it explains quite a bit about testosterone... The aggression, competition, barreling through, wrestling - all from that. And "they" say that girls who are more assertive at young ages probably have higher levels of it.MyThreeBlogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07817857109007712976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-921750124186868522008-02-25T16:34:00.000-06:002008-02-25T16:34:00.000-06:00Funnily enough, I was the assertive little girl on...Funnily enough, I was the assertive little girl on the soccer field growing up... different sports and activities, though. <BR/><BR/>But, equally funny (to me at least), as a 'girl' raising two boys, I am adament that my boys will share, take turns, not push, take the feelings and rights of others into consideration...ewe are herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13339650361453626546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-69847807260819291832008-02-25T16:25:00.000-06:002008-02-25T16:25:00.000-06:00Even if you, as a parent, attempt to be gender neu...Even if you, as a parent, attempt to be gender neutral in your child-rearing, it seems likely that kids will still get exposed to plenty of gender-biased evaluation throughout their young lives (not the least of which, for example in my case, from grandparents who are very old school). But why is it automatically assumed that we are somehow putting our daughters at a disadvantage by not encouraging them to be as aggressive as our sons? Because society values aggression more than compromise? So why don't we try to change that instead of pushing our daughters to match our sons?Kadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15499798447518286266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-81755521125555155642008-02-25T14:20:00.000-06:002008-02-25T14:20:00.000-06:00I have one of each -- but I have difficulty in fig...I have one of each -- but I have difficulty in figuring out what can be attributed to gender (and any gender-based parenting on my part) and what can be attributed to very different personalities.<BR/><BR/>Did that sentence make any sense?<BR/><BR/>I loved this post -- very thought-provoking. It's a subject that fascinates me.Cathy, Amy and Kristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01472486650115997239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-33453676990507294102008-02-25T13:53:00.000-06:002008-02-25T13:53:00.000-06:00Thank you, Julie, for this thoughtful post. I res...Thank you, Julie, for this thoughtful post. I respect your desire to raise assertive but decent young women.<BR/><BR/>I think that much(and much more tha a bit) of the rhetoric being used against Sen. Clinton is sexist, but I can certainly understand that there are many good questions about her.Karen Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540617923517042598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-77789943381521279692008-02-25T13:02:00.000-06:002008-02-25T13:02:00.000-06:00Really, really interesting post. As a mother of b...Really, really interesting post. As a mother of boys, I feel out of my depth more than I would, I think, if I were a mother of girls. The question of when to stop assertive behavior is one of those areas where I question myself. I stop assertive behavior at the level of aggression always, but I do find myself stopping it a little earlier when one of my two year olds is interacting with a girl. At one point, I actually found myself saying: "we have to be nice to girls."<BR/><BR/>The extent to which gender plays a part in my almost subconscious parenting choices has astounded me. But, equally, I wonder where else I could draw the line. Of course, we have to be nice to everyone, but in putting emphasis on being nice "to girls" I find myself giving them a special status which is no better than the parents who feel it's okay for the little boys to constantly control the ball.Suzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14382885000205172615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-65896619502723763522008-02-25T13:00:00.000-06:002008-02-25T13:00:00.000-06:00Or perhaps you can make it easy for me by making i...Or perhaps you can make it easy for me by making it a Hump Day Hmm topic, describe an incident where you or someone was wronged, in what would normally be considered outside of the social norms, and how you reacted, how you wish you reacted and what is possibly the best way to inform these idiots that they screwed up if that is even possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-21432279554645826952008-02-25T12:55:00.000-06:002008-02-25T12:55:00.000-06:00From the peanut gallery, here's the voice from a m...From the peanut gallery, here's the voice from a mom with both a boy and a girl... As a whole, boys and girls definitely have different temperaments and natural behavior tendencies, but you still need to look at each child individually. My son can get out of control and appear aggressive even though it is mostly unbridled enthusiasm and not malice. He will barrel down the slide in front of his sister but not other kids - double standard or perhaps parenting lessons only apply to the public. He is good about passing in soccer, even to girls, but will take the opportunity to score (many times a games, maybe he is aggressive ;)). <BR/><BR/>My daughter is extremely defiant and vocal about getting her way, but is quick to say sorry all the time (what is it about males that make them unable to apologize, do they really hate to admit they have wronged someone?). She says sorry so much that I have to correct her all the time and tell her NOT to say sorry for something that isn't her fault. She bosses her brother around, demanding that he pull her around on the sled (yes daggers coming from my eyes!). She sometimes says mean things to us and grandma, where my son would never utter mean words like that. Lets just say she is more challenging of the two. But she is sweet at school and overly nice and considerate with her friends, just like the stereotype.<BR/><BR/>In the end, it looks like I have pretty typical kids. BTW, your mention of the zoo incident reminds me of an incident we experienced yesterday at a hockey game that I'll definitely have to blog about..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-63111738182107588692008-02-25T12:40:00.000-06:002008-02-25T12:40:00.000-06:00If I'm not mistaken, wasn't NAFTA passed by a Demo...If I'm not mistaken, wasn't NAFTA passed by a Democratic Congress in 1991 or 1992? I definitely remember them passing GATT in the witching hours at the end of 1994 because the image of Senator Byrd's shaking hand slamming the gavel down while calling for order is forever in my mind. Sorry, since someone brought up NAFTA, I wanted to ask.<BR/><BR/>As for this post as strictly a "playground rules" post, I would like to take a few parents over my lap and "whip 'em good" for leaving their children entirely unattended while they torment others. Because two girls sat at the top of the stairs to a slide and told every child that came behind them "you're too little, you can't come up here" my daughter has forever after been afraid of going up them without someone helping her. If the girls hadn't done it at least three times, I might have ignored it, but they kept doing it, and their parents were oblivious. When I finally said "Stop it" in a quiet, calm voice to them, they were utterly shocked. I don't think anyone has ever done that to them. <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I know this comment is completely unrelated, but I just felt like sharing.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04826309601023733396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-33140142648866684772008-02-25T12:02:00.000-06:002008-02-25T12:02:00.000-06:00I'm trying to teach Chicky to be much more asserti...I'm trying to teach Chicky to be much more assertive than I am, which means I have to be more assertive to be a good role model. A very weird feeling. But I'd rather have my daughter labeled a "bitch" (cause you know it's going to happen if she goes after what she wants) than a have a wishy washy girl on my hands who doesn't know what she wants.Chicky Chicky Babyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18056206889322232109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-28935848556417414762008-02-25T11:51:00.000-06:002008-02-25T11:51:00.000-06:00It is such a fascinating and complicated subject.It is such a fascinating and complicated subject.crazymummahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663148723513574331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-67658329067475937222008-02-25T11:12:00.000-06:002008-02-25T11:12:00.000-06:00Until I read this, I would have said 'no, I don't ...Until I read this, I would have said 'no, I don't enforce any gender specific expectations on my daughter' - but... Knowing Miss E, had she been one of the little girls at the top of the slide, she would have wasted NO time in giving that little boy a piece of her mind - and I would have been intervening to get her to scale back her reactions. You see, in the playground, I think some moms (me included) can be over aware, if that makes sense, of how other moms view us and not wanting to be seen to not take a child to task for being seemingly aggressive - I would have words with Miss E if she were to 'go off on one' with another kid.<BR/><BR/>This realisation is horrible to me - am I stifling her own assertiveness? I shall have to think about this, and try to curb my 'helicopter mom' tendencies!<BR/><BR/>On the Obama/Clinton thing - I think he is taking a cheap shot at her now over NAFTA - a low blow considering that in the Texas Debate she honestly, and clearly said that she would be for a review of existing trade agreements, attempting to close loopholes that are permitting large scale export of US jobs, and improving the trade laws that are currently in place. This to me is not the 'turning her back on NAFTA' that Obama is accusing her of. I think she has every right to speak out angrily about it.Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07387168103798629268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13083972.post-87365960274203948602008-02-25T11:10:00.000-06:002008-02-25T11:10:00.000-06:00I only have a daughter, so I cannot speak about ra...I only have a daughter, so I cannot speak about raising a boy.<BR/><BR/>But with her, it's a constant struggle for me to balance the assertiveness without being aggressive. I have no issue with my child speaking up for herself, but I don't want her to always be the one who opposes everyone either, KWIM? And it has nothing to do with being a girl; it has to do with being a decent human being.<BR/><BR/>But overall, I do find people's expectations vary based on gender.SciFi Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479890087443823197noreply@blogger.com